Monday, October 1, 2007

Perched immature NG


My initial observation call this bird a female, because I observed the bird in flight and gliding low overhead; long wings. However, because of the negative area of the top and sides of the telephone pole - and the shape of the bird not being able to fill the negative space - this bird must be a male. This bird may appear to be a Cooper's Hawk; however, it happens to be a Goshawk.
10 December 2006 Agua Caliente Park

11 comments:

Nancy said...

Nelson -

Just curious as to how you ID'd this as a Northern Goshawk as opposed to an immature Cooper's Hawk.

Thanks in advance!

Nancy

scrubjay93 said...

Saying something is a goshawk does not make it a goshawk. Hoping to see more goshawks does not make it a goshawk. Thinking that goshawks are a better sighting than a Cooper's hawk does not make it a goshawk. I would ID this as a Cooper's hawk based on the belly streaking. How did you make this into a goshawk?

Jill said...

From the lack of streaking on the belly, to the small size that can be accurately extrapolated from the cable ties(this bird is around 17-18 inches from tip to tail at best), to the relative primary projection to the tip of the tail, and the absence of any speckling on the shoulder. Also, a complete lack of buffiness on the breast. This appears to me to be an immature female coopers hawk, with nothing not one thing, hinting at goshawk.

I respect that you are involved and passionate in doing your own private research and I wish more people would do the same, however I am concerned that you will ruin any credibility your research may have. It appears that many of the photos on this page are very questionable.

It may be to your benefit to record all accipiters that you observe with photos when possible.If you are "seeing" Goshawks more frequently then other accipiters you may want to reevaluate your identification techniques.

just a thought, we all make mistakes.

good luck to you and your passion.

Richard Fray said...

This is clearly a Cooper's Hawk. I wonder, Nelson, if you've ever seen a Goshawk...

Matt said...

From "Outside, inside, Outside goshawk"

"But, the gist of this little tale is: one doesn't need field marks, or coloring to identify raptors- especially Goshawks!"

Im sorry, but YES. you DO.

Being a falconer in WA state, and seeing many NA Goshawks, and having a mentor who has flown, TWO NA coopers hawks, and TWO captive bred goshawks. That bird happens to be a Coopers hawks... Its tail is quite long, and its beak is quite small.

I have seen many of both birds in my life. and i think you need to go get a book, or go to the zoo to see yours, because what your seeing the majority of times, are not goshawks.

-Matt

Aurelia said...

"because of the negative area of the top and sides of the telephone pole - and the shape of the bird not being able to fill the negative space - this bird must be a male. This bird may appear to be a Cooper's Hawk; however, it happens to be a Goshawk."

It happens to be eh? Think maybe the negative space wasnt filled because Coopers are a lot smaller than gos?

John said...

I can't help but wonder, what would the blogger call a real goshawk if he were to see one? A gyrfalcon?

This and Nelson's other equally hilarious 'cooper's hawk' blogs fascinate me like, dare I say, watching a train wreck, or perhaps like watching Notre Dame's football team crumble. The blogger's circular reasoning is addicting. Such delicious delirium!! I confess, I'm a fan.

Michael said...

I'm as skeptical as the rest about a goshawk appearing in central Tucson but, having zero experience with N. Goshawk personally, I showed this photo to a very knowledgeable birder. He pointed out that some of the discernable field marks on this bird are good for goshawk, namely: the long, prominent supercillium and the brown auricular patch and hint of a brownish malar stripe. He also pointed out that the amount of streaking in the breast is variable and not something that can safely be used to separate all individuals. A yellow eye, as this bird appears to have is consistent with Cooper's but by October, a Goshawk will often show a lemon yellow or even a hint of the orange that will be present by spring. Although the first impression is that of Cooper's, this bird does present some challenge. It would have been useful to have a better view of the tail. Perhaps others would like to address these points.

Jesse said...

Nelson..
I'm sure I'm not the first to tell you this... but you are delusional, you see goshawks everywhere in all things. Some may call it an obsession..psychologists would have a field day, but I am not a shrink, just a birder so..... none of your photos are of goshawks, none of them. They never will be goshawks, they never have been and no matter how many times you call them goshawks, they still will remain to NOT be goshawks.
Look I like goshawks, I really do, and I was very excited to see one, but Nelson I wonder if you have every really seen a goshawk.

Jeff Schultz said...

Sorry, but not to sound like a butt-head, this is not a Goshawk, but rather an immature Cooper's Hawk!

I have 30 years experience as a hawk watcher and counter at various sites in North America and have seen many, many Goshawks! I can tell you without a doubt, this isn't a Goshawk!

matthew said...

I don't know who Michael's "very Knowledgeable birder" was, but apparently they weren't. This is a Cooper's Hawk, and yes, they can have eye-lines like a goshawk. But I do get a kick out of Nelson's stubbornness and the fact that he has "15 years experience". Telling someone how many years you've been birding or how many so-and-so's you've seen is the first clue that you have no idea how to describe a bird but rather your agenda is to make people believe your authority should not be questioned. Can't wait until your field guide comes out....why don't you write one if you are so beyond everyone else's abilities?

Matthew

Matthew